Thanks John

I saw that those were available but I went with the Salsa Mukluk, have put 30 miles on it in 3 days and love it. The tires look ridiculous but actually aren't bad on pavement either. Why do people use those under the seat bags and not a rear rack? Is there something  I am missing? I have a set of Ortlieb panniers. 

Thanks again for your help.

stephen

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