{"id":62176,"date":"2019-06-18T04:00:15","date_gmt":"2019-06-18T11:00:15","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.rei.com\/blog\/?p=62176"},"modified":"2019-06-17T13:51:36","modified_gmt":"2019-06-17T20:51:36","slug":"wildfire-episode-four-a-retrospective","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.rei.com\/blog\/podcasts\/wildfire-episode-four-a-retrospective","title":{"rendered":"Wildfire Episode Four: A Retrospective"},"content":{"rendered":"<span class=\"cb-itemprop\" itemprop=\"reviewBody\"><p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https:\/\/player.simplecast.com\/b8d892d8-503b-4fdd-badb-e41438f6d6ac?dark=false\" width=\"100%\" height=\"200px\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\" seamless=\"\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.rei.com\/blog\/podcasts\/transcript-wildfire-episode-four-a-retrospective\">Transcript<\/a><\/p>\n<p>Only a few days after it started, the Eagle Creek Fire in the Columbia River Gorge was only seven percent contained, so a sudden increase in the wind could cause it to once again continue its approach toward Portland, Oregon, a heavily wooded city of 700,00 people that hadn\u2019t seen any measurable precipitation in 50 days. Everyone was skeptical that anything but rain could put this fire out, and it was nowhere in the forecast.<\/p>\n<p>In episode four of <em>Wildfire<\/em>, we\u2019ll look into our wildfire management strategy as an institution; to learn from its founding principles, as well as its pitfalls, and learn from our triumphs and mistakes to help chart the best path forward. How did these policies originate, and why? What lead to this overwhelming strategy of suppression, and where has that left us now?<\/p>\n<p>Regarding the young man who started the fire, we\u2019ll reveal everything we know about him, from press releases and news articles, to hopefully make some sense of his crime. And from there, we\u2019ll look at the birth of the National Forest Service in the beginning of the 20<sup>th<\/sup> Century, the pioneering efforts of Teddy Roosevelt and Gifford Pinchot, and the systemic perception of wildfire that has sunk its roots so deeply into society\u2019s consciousness that it has been next to impossible to change.<\/p>\n<p>Listen to Wildfire on\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/wildfire\/id1463624066\">Apple Podcasts<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/5DOpMMuF4khwtHUQTWuOcB\">Spotify<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.stitcher.com\/s?fid=405439&amp;refid=stpr\">Stitcher<\/a>\u00a0or wherever you listen to podcasts.<\/p>\n<h4>Key takeaways:<\/h4>\n<ul>\n<li>0:24 \u2013 The wind had finally died down, and for a moment, the fire had finally stopped spreading.<\/li>\n<li>1:40 \u2013 The government elevated the fire from a type two incident to a type one incident. There were now more than 1,000 firefighters in the Gorge to fight this fire and stop it before it went nuclear\u2026<\/li>\n<li>6:55 \u2013On September 2, 2017, a teenager in the Pacific Northwest walked into the woods and made a really, really big mistake.<\/li>\n<li>8:45 \u2013 \u201cHaving a catastrophic event happen in the middle of a traditionally busy weekend obviously had an impact on every single business here in town. Our customers didn\u2019t have a reason to come out anymore, because there weren\u2019t any trails to run on, bike on, play on\u2026\u201d<\/li>\n<li>12:15 \u2013 \u201cFrom a developmental standpoint, working with teenagers, they\u2019re with a group of friends, trying to look cool, trying to get that social acceptance, wanting people to think you\u2019re a \u2018badass\u2019, and feeling like you\u2019re invincible.\u201d<\/li>\n<li>15:27 \u2013 It simply isn\u2019t true that this kind of fire will never happen again. These fires, manmade or not, will likely continue, as they have throughout history.<\/li>\n<li>18:54 \u2013 \u201cIf you look back at the history of conflagrations in the United States, they pretty much align with the wave of frontier settlement&#8230;.\u201d \u2013 The history of wildland firefighting strategy, and the history if Smokey Bear<\/li>\n<li>25:27 \u2013 It all fell apart in the 1980s, when full-suppression tactics came back into vogue.<\/li>\n<li>29:00 \u2013 \u201cWe waged a war on wildfire as a nation. But is wildfire really terrible? Can we attach such a subjective and human label to something so far beyond us?\u201d<\/li>\n<li>31:49 \u2013 \u201cConvincing the public that some wildfires are good is tricky, but convincing the government could be even harder. And wildfire management in the United States is inextricably attached to timber.\u201d<\/li>\n<li>32:35 \u2013 The logging industry grew by 1,000 percent at the end of the 20<sup>th<\/sup> century, and clearcutting went into full effect. You can\u2019t drive through Oregon without seeing the scars of this unfortunate era. Every tree in America had a dollar sign on it.<\/li>\n<li>34:27 \u2013 \u201cWe had a human-caused fire, an abandoned campfire, way up in a dead-end drainage, and the fire became very active and took off\u2026 and some individuals were trapped\u2026 and four perished, and two were badly burned. It\u2019s not worth it, at all. It\u2019s not worth a life.\u201d<\/li>\n<li>36:34 \u2013 \u201cWe need to learn to live worth fire, because it\u2019s not going away.\u201d<\/li>\n<li>40:00 \u2013 \u201cWe\u2019re never going to live in a world without fire, and we wouldn\u2019t want to. But how would the legal system hold \u2018The Kid\u2019 accountable, and make a statement about his actions?\u201d<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h4>Resources<\/h4>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/www.stephenpyne.com\/\">Stephen Pyne&#8217;s website<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.washington.edu\/uwpress\/search\/books\/PYNFIA.html\">Stephen Pyne&#8217;s book: Fire in America<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.timothyeganbooks.com\/the-big-burn\">The Big Burn by Tim Egan\u00a0<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h4>More about the Wildfire podcast<\/h4>\n<p>When a wildfire arrives at our doorstep, it\u2019s a tragedy. This is especially true when these fires are human caused. But fire has always been an immense and immovable part of the natural order, particularly in the forests of the western United States.<\/p>\n<p>Forest fires and the destruction they cause are not black and white phenomenon, and they cannot be understood without looking closely at the issues that swirl and mutate around the subject of wildfire as much as the fires themselves.<\/p>\n<p>In <em>Wildfire<\/em>, hosts Graham Zimmerman and Jim Aikman explore the natural forest habitats in which wildfires burn, and how humans have historically interacted with forest fires and fire-susceptible terrain. Graham and Jim lead us into wild places impacted by forest fire; into history books; into conversations with scientists, naturalists, firefighters and politicians; and into the story of the destructive <a href=\"https:\/\/www.oregonlive.com\/pacific-northwest-news\/2017\/09\/live_updates_eagle_creek_fire.html\">2017 Eagle Creek Fire<\/a>, a human-caused forest fire that forever changed <a href=\"https:\/\/www.fs.usda.gov\/recarea\/crgnsa\/recreation\/hiking\/recarea\/?recid=29912&amp;actid=50\">Oregon\u2019s Columbia River Gorge<\/a>, one of the most unique and beloved scenic areas in the Pacific Northwest.<\/p>\n<p>Guided by the story of the Eagle Creek Fire\u2014and the ordeal of the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.hoodrivernews.com\/archive\/about-hikers-trapped-by-fire-at-eagle-creek-trail\/article_2cced0df-886f-53f5-8827-62d9456e4808.html\">150 hikers<\/a> who were unexpectedly trapped behind its towering flames\u2014<em>Wildfire <\/em>explores how, over the last 100 years in the United States, we have demonized and sought to suppress wildfire in an effort to <a href=\"http:\/\/www.conservationalliance.com\/\">preserve natural resources, scenic spaces<\/a>, and, of course, human civilization.<\/p>\n<h4>Connect with the team<\/h4>\n<ul>\n<li>Graham&#8217;s <a href=\"https:\/\/www.grahamzimmerman.com\">website<\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/grahamzimmerman\/\">Instagram<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Jim&#8217;s <a href=\"https:\/\/www.jimaikman.com\">website<\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/jimaikman\/\">Instagram\u00a0<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Evan&#8217;s (aka: the audio wizard) <a href=\"https:\/\/www.podpeak.com\">website<\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/podpeak\">Instagram<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Sean&#8217;s (aka: the wordsmith) <a href=\"http:\/\/www.cascadecadence.com\">website<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>You can see more of Graham and Jim&#8217;s work through their production company, Bedrock Film Works.<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/www.bedrockfilmworks.com\/\">Website<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/bedrockfilmworks\/\">Facebook<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/bedrockfilmworks\/\">Instagram<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/span>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Transcript Only a few days after it started, the Eagle Creek Fire in the Columbia River Gorge was only seven percent contained, so a sudden increase in the wind could cause it to once again continue its approach toward Portland, Oregon, a heavily wooded city of 700,00 people that hadn\u2019t seen any measurable precipitation in [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":57,"featured_media":62191,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[1726,1861],"tags":[],"internal-tag":[],"class_list":["post-62176","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-podcasts","category-wildfire"],"parsely":{"version":"1.1.0","canonical_url":"https:\/\/rei.com\/blog\/podcasts\/wildfire-episode-four-a-retrospective","smart_links":{"inbound":0,"outbound":0},"traffic_boost_suggestions_count":0,"meta":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Wildfire Episode Four: A Retrospective","url":"http:\/\/www.rei.com\/blog\/podcasts\/wildfire-episode-four-a-retrospective","mainEntityOfPage":{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"http:\/\/www.rei.com\/blog\/podcasts\/wildfire-episode-four-a-retrospective"},"thumbnailUrl":"https:\/\/www.rei.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/4\/2019\/06\/shutterstock_710588224.jpg?resize=150%2C150","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","url":"https:\/\/www.rei.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/4\/2019\/06\/shutterstock_710588224.jpg?fit=6000%2C4000"},"articleSection":"Wildfire","author":[{"@type":"Person","name":"Chelsea Davis"}],"creator":["Chelsea Davis"],"publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"Uncommon Path \u2013 An REI Co-op Publication","logo":""},"keywords":[],"dateCreated":"2019-06-18T11:00:15Z","datePublished":"2019-06-18T11:00:15Z","dateModified":"2019-06-18T11:00:15Z"},"rendered":"<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"wp-parsely-metadata\">{\"@context\":\"https:\\\/\\\/schema.org\",\"@type\":\"NewsArticle\",\"headline\":\"Wildfire Episode Four: A Retrospective\",\"url\":\"http:\\\/\\\/www.rei.com\\\/blog\\\/podcasts\\\/wildfire-episode-four-a-retrospective\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"http:\\\/\\\/www.rei.com\\\/blog\\\/podcasts\\\/wildfire-episode-four-a-retrospective\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.rei.com\\\/blog\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/sites\\\/4\\\/2019\\\/06\\\/shutterstock_710588224.jpg?resize=150%2C150\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.rei.com\\\/blog\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/sites\\\/4\\\/2019\\\/06\\\/shutterstock_710588224.jpg?fit=6000%2C4000\"},\"articleSection\":\"Wildfire\",\"author\":[{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"name\":\"Chelsea Davis\"}],\"creator\":[\"Chelsea Davis\"],\"publisher\":{\"@type\":\"Organization\",\"name\":\"Uncommon Path \\u2013 An REI Co-op Publication\",\"logo\":\"\"},\"keywords\":[],\"dateCreated\":\"2019-06-18T11:00:15Z\",\"datePublished\":\"2019-06-18T11:00:15Z\",\"dateModified\":\"2019-06-18T11:00:15Z\"}<\/script>","tracker_url":"https:\/\/cdn.parsely.com\/keys\/rei.com\/p.js"},"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/www.rei.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/4\/2019\/06\/shutterstock_710588224.jpg?fit=6000%2C4000","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.rei.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/62176","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.rei.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.rei.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.rei.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/57"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.rei.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=62176"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/www.rei.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/62176\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":62373,"href":"https:\/\/www.rei.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/62176\/revisions\/62373"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.rei.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/62191"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.rei.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=62176"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.rei.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=62176"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.rei.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=62176"},{"taxonomy":"internal-tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.rei.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/internal-tag?post=62176"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}